Is there really a difference between ministry and the marketplace? Or have we created a divide that Scripture never intended?

In this episode, Curt Swindoll shares insights from 40 years of leadership across nonprofit, church, and for-profit environments. 

Having transitioned multiple times - sometimes with a plan, sometimes without - Curt challenges the assumption that ministry is something we leave behind. 

Instead, he invites leaders to rethink their posture toward God, especially during seasons of uncertainty.

For leaders navigating burnout, succession, or vocational transition, this conversation reframes the journey. 

The issue is not whether you are in ministry or business. The deeper issue is whether you are living for God or with Him. 

And that distinction changes everything.

Most ministry leaders expect relief after stepping away.
What they don’t expect is the wilderness to begin after the resignation.

In this honest conversation, Dustin Kleinschmidt shares how years of crisis leadership, misaligned values, and unresolved grief led to burnout, anxiety, and a deep reckoning with faith. 

Rather than rushing toward resolution, Dustin invites leaders to reconsider what the wilderness is actually for.

This episode reframes suffering, challenges Christian shortcuts around pain, and offers language for leaders who feel stuck between obedience and disappointment. 

If you’ve ever wondered whether you missed God or why healing is taking so long, this conversation meets you right where you are.

When the role that once fit like a second skin begins to suffocate, what do you do? For Duncan Robinson, it meant stepping away. No scandal. No collapse. Just honesty and courage to say, “I need to sit down and be fed.”

That decision took him from church staff to radio hosting, from the pulpit to row three, and eventually back into ministry with a new clarity. 

Along the way, he discovered how to face failure without fear, how to detach identity from role, and why bi-vocational rhythms might be the healthiest way forward for pastors.

If you’re navigating transition - or helping someone who is - this conversation offers language and hope for what comes next.

Bill Simmons thought he was in control - until a child soldier in the Congo held him at gunpoint. In that moment, as the AK-47 clicked into place, Bill realized the terrifying truth: control was an illusion.

Years later, as the CEO of a global nonprofit, he faced a different kind of pressure - leading an organization, carrying the weight of a mission, and pushing through exhaustion. 

But this time, the gun wasn’t in someone else’s hands. It was the slow, creeping pressure of burnout, and it was just as dangerous.

In this episode, Bill shares how he went from being a leader on the brink to discovering the power of interruption.

He unpacks why so many pastors and ministry leaders are running on empty, why stepping away feels impossible, and how his sabbatical at a silent monastery changed everything.

Burnout isn’t a badge of honor - it’s a warning sign. If you feel the weight of ministry pressing down on you, this conversation is your lifeline.

What do you do when life shatters around you? 

When everything you built - your family, your future, your faith - feels like it’s slipping through your fingers?

Bryan Elliott knows suffering intimately. 

A tragic accident left his brother in a vegetative state. 

Addiction nearly destroyed his daughters. 

A brutal murder stole one of them forever. 

His businesses collapsed. 

His marriages unraveled. 

His world should have crushed him.

But it didn’t.

Instead, Bryan woke up the morning after his daughter's murder with something that made no sense: peace. 

Not numbness. 

Not denial. 

Actual, undeniable peace. 

And then, something even crazier - joy.

How?

This episode of Life After Ministry goes deep into the mystery of suffering, not as something to survive, but as something that transforms. 

Bryan doesn’t just talk about enduring pain - he talks about what it means to co-suffer with Christ, to find God in the darkest pit, and to come out on the other side more alive than ever. 

If you’ve ever walked through a season where God felt absent - where the wilderness stretched on too long and the heartbreak felt too heavy - this is the episode you need to hear.

Because maybe, just maybe, your suffering isn’t the end of the story. Maybe it’s the beginning of something bigger than you ever expected.

Key Takeaways

• Why suffering is not just something to endure, but something God uses to transform us.

• The kingdom principle of co-suffering with Christ and how it leads to co-glorification.

• How to recognize God’s presence in the darkest seasons, even when He feels silent.

• Why suffering is an accelerant in spiritual growth and how it prepares us for what’s next.

• The role of grief, loss, and pain in shaping our faith and revealing God’s goodness.

• How Bryan’s story of unimaginable suffering led to an unshakable trust in God’s sovereignty.

Chapter Markers

00:10 | Welcome & Bryan’s background01:15 | A tragic accident that unraveled his family07:31 | When life keeps taking - divorce, addiction, business collapse16:23 | The moment Bryan’s daughter was murdered17:06 | Waking up with peace - and why it didn’t make sense20:54 | Why suffering is an accelerant, not an obstacle26:22 | What we’re missing about suffering as believers33:42 | Encouragement for those walking through suffering40:51 | How to move forward and trust God in the process

If you’re walking through a season of suffering, you don’t have to navigate it alone. 

We’re giving away 14 copies of Bryan’s book, As In Heaven, for free. Be one of the first 14 people to email talk@pastoraltransitions.com, and we’ll send you a copy.

Want more resources on navigating life after ministry? Visit PastoralTransitions.com for guides, support, and practical help to walk through this season with clarity and hope.

To dive deeper into Bryan's ministry and find more resources on healing, restoration, and kingdom living, visit M46Ministries.com.

This is one of the most raw, gut-honest conversations we’ve ever had. Listen now, and let it reshape how you see suffering.

In this episode of Life After Ministry, Chris Adams, Executive Director of Flourishing in Ministry, discusses the rising burnout among pastors, offering insights on self-care, emotional resilience, and daily wellness practices. Learn how pastors can prevent burnout, redefine success, and thrive personally, even when their ministry is facing challenges. Explore practical strategies for flourishing in ministry.

In Episode 34 of Life After Ministry, Dennis Allen, author of The Disciple Dilemma, shares his journey from a military and corporate background to addressing one of the most significant crises in the church today: the failure of discipleship. Dennis discusses how the church has shifted from making disciples to prioritizing institutional success, leading to widespread disengagement, de-churching, and a broken model of ministry. Drawing on his leadership experience, Dennis explains how churches can refocus on their true mission—making disciples who make disciples.

Jon Morrison shares his journey from vocational ministry to entrepreneurship. He discusses his call to ministry, the catalyst that brought him out of ministry, and the challenges he faced during the scrambling season. Jon emphasizes the transferable skills that pastors possess and how they can be applied in the marketplace. He shares his own experiences in entrepreneurship and highlights the blessings and opportunities that come with life after ministry. Jon encourages pastors to have hope and embrace the new possibilities that await them.

Summary

In this conversation, Ian and Sharalee Smith share their journey of transitioning in and out of ministry and the lessons they have learned along the way. They discuss the decision to have six children and the challenges and blessings of raising a large family. They also talk about living in the wilderness and the importance of trusting God in uncertain times. They share their experiences of stepping out in faith and the invitation to know God on a deeper level. Finally, they discuss their current work with the Hero Collective and the importance of living one day at a time.

Dane Sanders shares his journey from vocational ministry to his current work with Men and Women of Discomfort. He discusses the challenges faced in vocational ministry and the need for better transitions and support within the Christian community. Dane explains the concept of Men and Women of Discomfort, a program that focuses on intentional discomfort to foster personal growth and strength.