Many ministry leaders begin their journey with a genuine desire to serve. But somewhere along the way, leadership can quietly become something else. 

Platforms grow. Expectations rise. Applause becomes affirmation. And before long, influence begins to shape identity.

Eric Reid spent years traveling the world teaching leadership alongside John Maxwell. From the outside, it looked like success. But internally, Eric began to notice a troubling pattern. 

Leadership had become a performance, a way to earn approval rather than simply serve people.

In this conversation with Matt Davis, Eric reflects on the personal awakening that led him to write Leadership Was Never My Calling. 

Together they unpack the deep tensions many leaders carry: the pull toward platform, the pressure to perform, and the quiet invitation of Jesus to step down the ladder and serve with humility.