Many leaders secretly believe their value comes from what they do. But what happens when the title disappears, the ministry ends, or life takes a turn you never expected?

In this deeply personal conversation, Steve Cummings shares his journey through ministry leadership, addiction recovery, job loss, financial uncertainty, and ultimately discovering a deeper identity as a beloved son of God. 

From sitting in rehab at age 55 to working at Home Depot and eventually launching Bringing Kingdom, Steve offers hope for anyone learning to trust God in a season they never planned for.

Leaving ministry is rarely a simple decision. 

For many pastors, it comes after years of carrying responsibility, managing expectations, and trying to care for everyone around them while quietly neglecting themselves and their families. 

In this episode, Shawn Gwaltney shares the story of how ministry slowly became unsustainable, what pushed him toward transition, and how he eventually rediscovered purpose through business, mentorship, and helping others find clarity. 

This conversation offers hope for leaders wrestling with burnout, identity loss, and the fear of what comes next after ministry.

What do scuba diving, salary spreadsheets, and severance packages have in common? According to David Fletcher - everything. 

In this episode, Matt sits down with the founder of xPastor and longtime executive pastor, David Fletcher, to talk about the messy, complicated, and deeply human work of leadership transitions in the church.

They unpack the real cost of bad transitions - not just in dollars, but in broken trust. 

Dave shares stories from his 30+ years in ministry, including firing people he loved, navigating church politics without losing his soul, and why a generous severance might be the best culture-shaping tool a church has. 

You'll also hear how he and his wife built a thriving marriage in the middle of ministry chaos, and why their daily Starbucks date is sacred.

It's honest. It's wise. It’s surprisingly funny. And it’s a masterclass for anyone leading people, especially in the church.

Alicia Lee didn’t leave ministry. She left Wall Street.

After nearly two decades at Goldman Sachs, Alicia was managing a massive trading floor and rubbing shoulders with IPO titans like Jack Ma and Snapchat execs. She loved the fast pace. She was good at it. 

And then God pulled the plug. A missed promotion became a divine pivot - and what followed was not a sabbatical, but a startup.

In this episode, we dive deep into Alicia’s unlikely journey from investment banking to launching Faithly, a digital ecosystem for ministry leaders - built not to replace community, but to amplify it. 

She opens up about her hustle, her heartbreak, and her unshakeable sense of calling.

If you’ve ever wrestled with identity in a transition, if you’ve ever been tempted to white-knuckle your way to the next thing, or if you’re still unsure what ministry looks like outside the walls of the church - this conversation will hit home.

Alicia’s story isn’t just about leaving a job. It’s about finding your voice when your title disappears.

Why is it that modern churches seem so successful in introducing people to Jesus but struggle to lead them into a life of true transformation?

Brian Fisher doesn’t hold back as he critiques the American church’s failure to address the deeper stages of discipleship. Drawing from his own journey through loss, reflection, and rebuilding, Brian shares his vision for a radically different approach: smaller, intimate communities focused on spiritual formation instead of surface-level engagement.

In this episode, Brian and Matt discuss how “the wall” in the discipleship journey forces us to confront our brokenness and deepen our relationship with Christ. Brian introduces his groundbreaking concept of “greenhouses,” spaces designed to cultivate deep spiritual growth, and how they differ from traditional small groups.

For anyone longing to go beyond the basics of faith, this episode is a must-listen.

What do you do when the life you built for the kingdom—your identity, your mission, your livelihood—gets ripped away without explanation?

For Brian Fisher, founder of a thriving pro-life nonprofit that saved over 18,000 lives, the answer wasn’t immediate. In 2020, he and his wife were forced out of the ministry they built. Their possessions came home in cardboard boxes, and their community turned silent.

In this raw and honest episode, Brian reflects on the crushing loneliness and profound disorientation that followed. But this isn’t just his story—it’s the story of countless ministry leaders who face the same unspoken challenges.

Together, we explore what happens on “Day One” after hitting rock bottom and begin to uncover the tools for navigating the inward journey, the wall, and the deep transformation that only comes through suffering.

Imagine being just weeks away from your wedding and finding out through a third party that you've been fired from your church. This is exactly what happened to Wes Gay.

In this episode of Life After Ministry, host Matt Davis and guest Wes Gay dive into the difficult transitions from church ministry to marketplace success.

Together, they explore what it means to be forced out of a role you thought defined you, and how to build a thriving career outside the church while using the same skills honed in ministry.

What happens when you step away from the calling you’ve always known and venture into the unknown?

Jordan Whilden found himself at that crossroads, leaving behind nearly a decade of church ministry for an uncertain future in the marketplace.

But this episode of Life After Ministry is not just about leaving; it’s about rediscovering purpose, redefining ministry, and understanding that God's calling often transcends job titles.

Jordan's journey from pastor to CEO of Ministry Hub reveals how stepping away from a church role doesn’t mean stepping away from serving the Kingdom.

In this episode, Matt Davis talks with Jordan about the anxiety that comes with such a leap, the lessons learned, and how God continued to use his gifts in new, impactful ways.

For anyone wrestling with the question, "Is there life after ministry?" - Jordan’s story offers hope, clarity, and insight.

Explore 'Ministry In The Military' on the Life After Ministry podcast. Discover how pastors can transition to fulfilling roles as military chaplains, offering spiritual guidance to service members. Chaplain Jordan Huggins shares insights and experiences from serving in the US Air Force and Space Force. Learn about the unique challenges and rewards of military chaplaincy for pastors seeking a new path. A must-listen for those contemplating their next steps in ministry.

Kyle and Maria Isabelli share their experience of being fired from their church ministry and the emotional impact it had on them. They discuss the process of being let go, the loss they felt, and the journey of healing and finding purpose again. Kyle wrote a book titled 'Refined by the Fired' to help others who have gone through similar experiences. They emphasize the importance of clear expectations and communication in ministry and the need for empathy and shepherding in leadership roles. Despite the challenges, they remain committed to ministry and continue to serve in their new roles.

In this conversation, Jon Sanders shares his journey from being a pastor to transitioning into a new season of ministry. He discusses the calling that led him into ministry and the challenges he faced along the way. Jon also explores the concept of bivocational ministry and the role of entrepreneurs in the church. He encourages pastors to embrace their unique gifts and explore new opportunities outside of traditional ministry. The conversation highlights the importance of finding a new path and offers guidance on how to navigate the transition process.

In Episode 2 of the Life After Ministry Podcast, we sit down with Bill Tom, Founder, CEO, and Chief Ministry Officer of Pastoral Transitions.

With a rich background in career coaching and executive search, Bill offers priceless advice on vocational discernment for those exiting ministry roles.

The episode, aptly titled "How To Figure Out Your Career After Ministry," provides a roadmap for navigating life's next chapter. Bill also reveals the recurring theme he encountered in his office that was the catalyst for creating Pastoral Transitions.

Tune in for profound insights that could be your first steps toward a fulfilling second act.