LIFE AFTER
MINISTRY
STORIES OF WHAT NOW AND WHAT’S NEXT
Explore Life After Ministry
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Episode 102 - Your Bylaws Would Like a Word (featuring Sheila Bennett)
Some churches find their bylaws only after a pastor announces a departure. Then they discover the documents haven’t been reviewed in decades.
Sheila Bennett would rather help a board ask those questions earlier. With more than twenty years in church finance and operations, she sees governance as part of caring for the people doing ministry.
Sheila joins us to discuss why churches need structures that serve the organization beyond its current leader.
We talk about choosing board members for more than proximity, understanding a congregation’s relationships, and making sure someone owns the work happening behind the scenes.
There’s also an honest exchange about why pastors avoid this material. We would prefer Leviticus to business paperwork. Sheila explains why she finds purpose in the details we’d gladly hand to someone else.
Episode 69 - A Christian Attorney on Ending Well (featuring John Melcon)
Ministry employment isn’t just HR. It’s covenant community, stewardship, and public witness.
In this episode, attorney and former ministry leader John Melcon explains how churches and nonprofits can handle staff transitions without abandoning their values or ignoring real risks.
John shares his own sudden exit from a director role in Christian higher education and how that season led him to serve ministries as legal counsel.
He outlines why U.S. courts often take a hands-off approach to religious leadership disputes, what that means for pastors and boards, and how to prepare before conflict ever arises.
From “talk about your last day on your first day” to using Christian conciliation instead of civil court, this conversation offers a road map: clarity in writing, compassion in tone, and a process that keeps the mission central.
Episode 64 - Why Ministry Leaders Don’t Talk About Retirement (featuring Gabe Pelphrey)
Many pastors find themselves at the end of their ministry career unable to retire - not because they lack calling, but because they lack financial security. Churches often avoid the money conversation, leaving leaders stuck in the pulpit longer than they should be.
In this episode, financial strategist Gabe Pelphrey opens the curtain on why retirement planning for ministry leaders so often gets ignored. He explains the unique challenges pastors face, the role boards must play, and the courageous conversations that make succession possible.
This isn’t just about money - it’s about stewardship, legacy, and ensuring both leaders and churches are prepared for what’s next.
Episode 63 - How the ECFA Is Redefining Care for Church Leaders (featuring Jake Lapp)
Behind every thriving ministry is a foundation you can’t always see - standards, accountability, and trust. Without them, the most passionate vision can unravel overnight.
In this episode of Life After Ministry, ECFA’s Jake Lapp explains why accountability matters not just for auditors and boards but for pastors, leaders, and anyone entrusted with Kingdom resources.
He shares how ECFA’s standards were designed to serve ministries, not stifle them, and how transparency is one of the clearest ways leaders reflect Christ’s call to integrity.
If you’ve ever wondered whether accountability hinders or helps ministry, Jake’s perspective reframes the conversation. This episode offers a framework for leaders who want to guard the mission, protect their people, and leave behind a legacy of trust.
Episode 57: Absolute Best Practices of Nonprofit Boards (featuring Dr. Michael Anthony)
What if the health of your ministry depends more on your board than you think? Dr. Michael Anthony has spent 40 years in boardrooms - as a member, chair, consultant, and C-suite leader - and he’s seen what works and what breaks ministries apart.
In this candid conversation, Dr. Anthony unpacks common mistakes boards make, the unseen cost of poor governance, and the simple practices that lead to longevity and mission health.
From defining lanes to using a “log of motions,” from succession planning to EQ, he explains why leadership transitions succeed - or fail - long before the public ever sees it.
And he gets personal, sharing the story of his most painful ministry transition, the “dark night of the soul” it brought, and how God restored his joy and purpose.
Whether you’re a ministry leader, board member, or walking through a transition, this episode will give you tools to strengthen your leadership and hope for what’s next.
Episode 55: Balancing the Business Brain and the Pastoral Heart (featuring Dave Fletcher)
What do scuba diving, salary spreadsheets, and severance packages have in common? According to David Fletcher - everything.
In this episode, Matt sits down with the founder of xPastor and longtime executive pastor, David Fletcher, to talk about the messy, complicated, and deeply human work of leadership transitions in the church.
They unpack the real cost of bad transitions - not just in dollars, but in broken trust.
Dave shares stories from his 30+ years in ministry, including firing people he loved, navigating church politics without losing his soul, and why a generous severance might be the best culture-shaping tool a church has.
You'll also hear how he and his wife built a thriving marriage in the middle of ministry chaos, and why their daily Starbucks date is sacred.
It's honest. It's wise. It’s surprisingly funny. And it’s a masterclass for anyone leading people, especially in the church.
Episode 21: Essential Conversations For Your Board with Dr. Dee Dee Mayer
Dr. Dee Dee Mayer discusses the importance of board governance within the church and the need for training and support for governing boards. She shares her research on the role of elder boards in supporting wellness in pastoral leadership and the challenges they face. Dr. Mayer emphasizes the importance of selecting board members based on spiritual maturity and creating a culture of accountability and healthy conflict resolution. She provides nine essential conversations for governing boards to have, including defining culture, guiding principles for recruitment, and managing difficult leaders. Dr. Mayer highlights the need for proactive leadership to prevent church hurt and create a space for healing.
Facing Life After Ministry can feel hopeless, but it doesn’t have to be.
Whether you've stepped away from your position by choice, or circumstances have forced a change, it's a monumental shift that leaves many wondering, "What's next?" If you're at this crossroads, you may feel alone, overwhelmed, and unsure about the road ahead.
We want you to know that you're not alone in this transition. There's not just life after ministry - there's a chance to thrive.
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Listen to an episode and help us spread the word by leaving a 5-star review on Apple Podcasts.
“Just listened to Matt and Marilee unpacked their own story in episode one. So generous, honest, and invitational. Thanks for meeting a "gap" in the ministry world, and by that I mean the shattered heads and hearts wandering the land like Christendom's own take on the Walking Dead. I pray this resurrects many, opens eyes for their families and communities, causing an increase in empathy among God's people.”
- Scott White
David, Former Pastor
"I felt lost after leaving the ministry. This podcast showed me a way forward."
Sarah, Ex-Missionary
"Life After Ministry Podcast was a lifeline during my transition. Now, I'm thriving in my new chapter!"
The Struggles of Transitioning
Stepping away from pastoral service can be a lonely journey filled with uncertainties. What will your new identity be? How do you make sense of the changes? The stakes are high - but you don't have to navigate this alone.
