Jonathan Shibley was about to speak when someone whispered how sorry he felt for him, having to fill his father’s shoes.

Following a respected founder carries pressure. Following a father brings that pressure home.

In this episode, Matt Davis talks with David and Jonathan Shibley about the succession at Global Advance - and how they remained close through it. 

Jonathan joined with no promised title, served for ten years before becoming president, and had time to earn the confidence of the board and the people connected to the ministry.

David explains why he affirmed his son’s leadership publicly and kept disagreements private. Jonathan describes the insecurity of being compared with his father, the weight of becoming president, and learning to lead in his own way.

They also discuss their wives’ experiences, boundaries around family time, financial preparation, and the work David continues to do after leaving the presidency. It’s a hopeful account of a handoff that gave both generations room to serve.

Why is it so hard to let go of a ministry you love before something forces the decision? 

Robin Fuller knows firsthand. After more than 23 years in pregnancy center ministry, she burned out and heard that only about 10 percent of ministry leaders finish well.

She decided to be part of that 10 percent. Robin lifted the mantle off her shoulders in front of her board and walked through a four-year succession plan that started with a simple "Things I Do" document.

Matt and Robin talk about why founders struggle most, how a poverty mindset keeps leaders in the seat too long, and why outgoing leaders need to step away for at least six months. Robin also shares her new book, Finish Well: Succession Planning for the Ministry You Love.

Anthony Barton was a successful business owner when a trust attorney asked what his family mission statement was - not his business one.

That question pushed him beyond leaving a gift toward building a legacy, and within 90 days he and his family were serving in Swaziland.

Cancer later clarified the shift. Anthony sold his company, entered seminary, and now coaches Christian entrepreneurs through Convene.

In this conversation he shares frameworks for pausing and pivoting, caring for people as image-bearers, and looking for God's providence in disruption.

Founder transitions are some of the most difficult moments in ministry leadership, but they don't have to end poorly.

After leading the church he planted for 27 years, Keith Spurgin shares the lessons he learned about succession, feedback, sabbaticals, and letting go with confidence. 

He also reflects on the leadership mistakes he nearly made during COVID and how stepping away for a year ultimately prepared both him and his church for a healthy transition.

Church transitions often expose what has been neglected for years. 

In this conversation, longtime pastor Wayne Hoag reflects on the painful lessons he learned after leaving one church unprepared for his departure and how that experience shaped a completely different approach to succession later in ministry. 

Together, we explore what healthy pastoral transitions require: humility, long-term preparation, deep love for the church, and the willingness to release control before crisis forces the issue.

The conversation also digs into the spiritual side of leadership transition. Wayne shares how unity and love inside the body of Christ become especially important during seasons of change and why churches that avoid difficult conversations often create deeper wounds later.

Leadership transitions often don’t fail in the moment they happen. They begin to unravel long before that. 

In unclear expectations, undefined roles, and decisions made without discernment. 

This episode explores how fear, lack of clarity, and misaligned leadership structures quietly shape outcomes. It offers a clearer path forward for leaders and boards navigating change.

What happens when a pastor steps away after decades of leading a church?

Many leaders imagine retirement will bring peace and freedom. 

But for pastors, the transition often carries unexpected weight. The loss of identity, the quiet grief of leaving a community, and the challenge of rediscovering purpose can make the next season far more complicated than anticipated.

After serving the same church for 35 years, Doug Bullock faced this reality firsthand. What began as a thoughtful transition into retirement turned into a deeper journey through loss, identity, and calling. 

In the process, he discovered that many pastors are unprepared for the emotional and spiritual questions that follow the end of pastoral leadership.

In this conversation, Doug shares what surprised him most after stepping away from ministry and why retiring pastors still have a crucial role in strengthening the church. 

Together they explore how pastors can process loss, redeem past pain, and find renewed purpose beyond the pulpit.

Dr. Nathan Baxter loved ten hours of his job. 

Those one-on-ones with staff fueled him. The rest slowly emptied him. Naming that truth started a two-year journey out of a role he’d held for decades. He didn’t abandon ministry. He changed vehicles so his calling could breathe again.

In this conversation Nathan walks through a practical runway. He set a modest income target, built a small savings cushion, and launched a coaching practice with a pastor’s heart. He also shares the moment his elders asked him to leave sooner than planned and chose surprising generosity, a gift that humbled him more than any pain.

Now coaching CEOs and pastors alike, Nathan talks finishing well, clarifying a “particular purpose,” and the three anchors every leader over 50 needs: margin, influence, and hyper-intentional living. 

If transition feels like free fall, this episode will help you steady your soul and take the next right step.

Many pastors find themselves at the end of their ministry career unable to retire - not because they lack calling, but because they lack financial security. Churches often avoid the money conversation, leaving leaders stuck in the pulpit longer than they should be.

In this episode, financial strategist Gabe Pelphrey opens the curtain on why retirement planning for ministry leaders so often gets ignored. He explains the unique challenges pastors face, the role boards must play, and the courageous conversations that make succession possible.

This isn’t just about money - it’s about stewardship, legacy, and ensuring both leaders and churches are prepared for what’s next.

What happens when a leader transitions not just into a new role - but into their calling? 

In this episode, Matt Davis introduces Ron Henry, the newly appointed Chief Succession Officer at Ministry Transitions. Ron brings decades of experience in executive placement and career development, but his deeper calling? 

Helping leaders find where God wants them next.

This isn’t just a career conversation - it’s a soul-level journey. 

Ron shares raw stories of failure, fear, and faith, revealing what makes a transition succeed or fall apart. 

Whether you're facing a career shift, retirement, or leading an organization through change, this episode is packed with wisdom you need now - not someday.

If you’ve ever asked, “What’s next for me?” - this conversation is your next step.

What do you do when ministry success comes at the cost of your soul?

In this episode, we sit down with Jon Talbert - pastor, coach, and founder of Forte - to talk about the quiet unraveling that often happens behind the scenes in leadership. 

Jon has led at the highest levels of church and nonprofit work, but somewhere along the way, he realized he was losing himself in the process. What followed wasn’t a dramatic exit - but a deliberate shift. A reckoning. A redefinition of calling.

If you’ve ever questioned your role, your rhythm, or even your relevance in ministry, this conversation will hit close to home. 

Jon gets honest about burnout, identity, and why courage sometimes looks like letting go.

This isn’t just about recovering from ministry. It’s about discovering what’s next - with less fear and more freedom.

In this conversation, Pastor Toney Parks shares his journey from an unlikely candidate to becoming a pastor and his experiences growing up in Birmingham. He discusses the influence of Martin Luther King Jr. and the importance of community in the black church. Pastor Parks reflects on his 32 years of pastoring a church and the decision to retire. He emphasizes the need for pastors to prepare for retirement and shares his own plans for life after ministry.

In Episode 8, we sit down with Gary Weaber, who poured his heart into pastoral ministry for over three and a half decades. Imagine, after 36 dedicated years, facing a conversation with your elders about stepping down from your teaching role. Most pastors dread this talk, fearing miscommunication, hurt, and the potential fallout that could affect the congregation. Yet, Gary's story shines a different light. Instead of walking away with wounds, he left that meeting feeling uplifted, rating the experience an impressive 11 out of 10. So, what was their secret?