Episode 65 - Leaving Willow, Finding Wilderness: What Integrity Costs and Why It’s Worth It (featuring Steve Carter)
Telling stories of turning transition into transformation. There is Life After Ministry.
When the New York Times ran with allegations surrounding Willow Creek’s founding pastor, Steve Carter had a choice: keep the machine running or protect the trust of the people in the room. He chose integrity - and walked away from the stage that had defined his career.
In this conversation, Steve names the real costs: the silence inside the institution, the “values higher than the chaos” that guided him, and the morning-after reality that there was no job, no safety net, and no way to control the narrative.
He talks about the anger he absorbed, the outside leaders who showed up, and the therapist’s hard question that kept him from repeating patterns.
But the story doesn’t end in exile. It moves through a real wilderness - grief, breathing, waiting - and into a humbler, healthier life: moving back to the Midwest, choosing place over platform, and becoming the lead pastor at Christ Church. What emerges is a field guide for anyone facing a crisis of integrity in Christian leadership.
Key Takeaways
Integrity over institutional preservation: Trust is sacred; don’t trade it for optics.
Name “values higher than the chaos”: Decide in advance what you won’t violate when pressure comes.
Healing is not transferable: There’s first-hand wounding and first-hand healing; your family needs its own path.
Interrogate attraction to unhealthy systems: Ask why certain leaders and cultures feel “safe.”
Grief takes the time it takes: Practice a Holy Saturday rhythm - don’t rush from Friday to Sunday.
Choose place over platform: Calling is often geographic and relational, not positional.
Lead from scars, not spin: Wounds can become witness when truth is told and humility is practiced.
Chapter Markers
00:00 — Cold open: Why transitions are never just “staff changes”
04:53 — “These are my people”: the early joy at Willow
06:47 — Crisis emerges; what repentance would have required
09:14 — The headlines drop; “I won’t play with people’s trust”
11:52 — Who can you trust when the room is spinning?
17:22 — Six options, and why pastoring again wasn’t one of them
19:26 — Therapist’s jolt: “Why are you drawn to narcissists?”
22:16 — Outside support vs. inside backlash; the binder of messages
25:34 — Reframing the anger; learning what people were really saying
27:59 — Starbucks incident; a son’s question about “reward”
33:25 — Grieve, Breathe, Receive: the Holy Weekend framework
36:53 — Wilderness theology: disorientation to reorientation
39:36 — Reentry: discerning a safe, healthy church
41:33 — “Steve of Chicagoland”: called to a place, not a position
43:50 — Inner Hybels and inner Ortberg: action and formation
47:20 — Staying in touch; practicing faithfulness, not fame
If you’re walking through a ministry transition or facing hard decisions about leadership, you don’t have to do it alone. Visit MinistryTransitions.com to explore resources, donate to support a leader in the thick of change, or book a confidential call.
You can also learn more about Steve Carter’s ministry and resources through Christ Church of Oak Brook and by picking up his book Grieve, Breathe, Receive at stevecarter.org/book.
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